January 03, 2005
by: jovial_cynic

image: Triquetra (cc) bella731

I think a part of the difficulty in understanding the Trinity is that people interchange "God" with "God: the father." For this essay, I will refer to "God" as "GOD" and "God: the father" as "Yahwey" - the name given to the hebrew for the name of the one they were to worship. FYI, Yahwey is rendered "Jehovah" in the greek. I like Yahwey better. I think it sounds cooler.

The passage in John 1:1 when it says that The Word (which is later defined as Jesus) was with GOD, and that the Word was GOD, there is something that needs to be understood. By the Greek, the literal meaning requires a one-way translation. You can translate it it to mean that the Word was GOD, but not that GOD was the Word. Ie., "all baseballs are round" doesn't equal "all round things are baseballs."

This is an important distinction. Jesus is GOD. Yahwey (the name of the hebrew God) is GOD. The Holy Spirit is GOD. But Jesus is not Yahwey. And the Holy Spirit is not Jesus. But all three are GOD.

Jesus prayed to Yahwey, and then later said that another would come (the Holy Spirit). Right there, we have three distinct characters. But each character is a "face" of GOD. You need all three to get the clearest picture of who GOD is. Remove one, and you have an incomplete picture. But at the same time, each one accurately reflects the nature of GOD.

When Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac in Genesis 22, there is an illustration that a lot of people casually overlook. Abraham (representing Yahwey) was willing to sacrifice his precious son Isaac (representing Jesus). Isaac, obedient to his father's will, allowed himself to be bound on the altar to be sacrificed. Both characters are necessary to see GOD's active will. You can't just look at Isaac and see Jesus; you have to look at Abraham and see the will of Yahwey.

When Abraham sends his servant Eliezer (who's name means "comforter, counselor, guide"... just like the way the Holy Spirit is described by Jesus) to get a wife for Isaac (Genesis 24), the picture we get is that of the father sending the servant to seek out a bride for the son, or rather Yahwey, sending the Holy Spirit to seek out the church (greek Ecclesia, which means "called out ones.") for Jesus. When Eliezer does the will of Abraham, the father, he finds Rebekah, and when he is convinced that Rebekah is the one that is right for Isaac, he adorns her with gifts (gifts of the spirit, if i want to stretch the analogy out that far), praises God and then tells her of the household of Abraham, and then of Isaac. Shortly after, Rebekah is taken to the house of Isaac where they are joined as one.

In this story, Abraham, Eliezer, and Isaac are vital to understanding the nature of GOD. Each of the three reflects the characteristics of GOD in ways we can understand. And each are necessary; remove one, and you have an incomplete GOD.

Does that make sense? This clears up the "how can Jesus pray to God if they're the same person" question. Jesus prays to Yahwey, the father. But they are both personifications of the bigger picture of who GOD is. When you look at Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac, and then look at Abraham, Eliezer, and Isaac's relationship with Rebekah, you get a BIG picture of who GOD is. GOD is bigger than Jesus, bigger than the Holy Spirit, and bigger than Yahwey; GOD is the big picture, using the personification of the three of them in unison to give us an idea of who He is.


Laura said:
Can you help me? I love your site and found it looking for information on Paul Atartus (I'm sure I've mispelled it). Can you tell me about him or point me in the right direction?
December 30, 2007

jovial_cynic said:
I'm sorry - I'm not sure I can help you. I don't know who Paul Atartus is. Are you talking about the Paul of the New Testament?
December 30, 2007

Scott Perkins said:
Good anology, I will read that and add it to the truth of Gods Triunity.

and show it to all the oneness heathens.

In the Blessed Triunity of God

Gen 1.26 Then God said let US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness.
Gen 3.22 Then the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become as one of US, to know good and evil.
Gen 11.6-7 and the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language;and this they begin to do:and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.Go to, let US go down, and there confound there language, that they might not understand one anothers speech.

now you say He was talking to angelic beings, or hosts, but God would not tell a created being to create.

proverbs 30.4 Who hath asended up into heaven, or descended?who has gathered the wind in his fist? who has bound the waters in his garment? who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his Sons name, if thou can tell.

Isaiah 48.16 Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, There Am I: and now the Lord God AND His Spirit has sent Me.

this is clearly Jesus speaking, He mentions the Father and the Holy Spirit sent Him.

John 1.1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, And the Word was God, 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; And without him was not any thing made that was made.

now here the Word, who is Jesus, was in the beginning with God, yet He was God, but was in the beginning with God.

Now we know Jesus was not the Father, because the Father spoke about His Son, and Jesus spoke over 200 times about His Father, and Jesus took the book out of his Fathers hand in the book of rev. The Prophets seen Jesus on the right hand of his Father.

In Hebrews 1.5 For which unto any of the angels said He at any time, thou art my Son, this day I have begotten thee? And again, I will be unto Him a Father and He shall be unto Me a Son.

John 14.23 Jesus answered and said unto them, if a man love Me, he will keep my words:and My Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

John 15.24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin:but now they have both seen and hated BOTH me AND my Father.

Rev 3.21 To him that overcomes, will I grant to sit with me on my throne, even as I overcame, and am set down with my Father on His Throne.

Rev 3.21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me on my throne, even as I overcame and am set down with my Father on His throne.

John 2. 22 -23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? he is ANTICHRIST who denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever deniethed the Son, the same hath not the Father, but he that acknowledgeth The Son has the Father also.

Also, the Father and Son also. if there is no Father and Son, whos the also?

Jesus again mentions Him being with his Father on his throne with him.

Just like John and Stephen said,

Acts 7.55 But he, being filled with the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven and seen Jesus standing on the right hand of God.

rev 1.10 John said he was in the Spirit on the Lords day, later on in rev, John looked up and seen Jesus sitting on the right hand of God.

Rev 5.And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the Throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals and I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?and no man in heaven, nor in the earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book neither to look therein.And one of the elders said unto me, weep not, behold the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the root of David hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

and beheld, and lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beast, And in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth in all the earth. And He came in took the book out of the right hand of Him that sat on the Throne.and when He had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb.

verse 13 of chapter 5 in the book of rev.And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as there are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying Blessing and Honour, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the lamb. forever and ever.

you see Jesus Christ who is Almighty God, but He is not the Father, Jesus came and took the book out of His Fathers hand. he was the only one found worthy.

Notice Both the Father and the Lamb are wo

June 23, 2008

jovial_cynic said:
Scott - the comment system cuts you off after a while... you might want to use less quotes in your comments.
June 23, 2008

jovial_cynic said:
The comment feature has been modified to notify folks if their comments have exceeded 5,000 characters. That should prevent cut-offs from occuring in the future.
June 23, 2008

Lori W. said:
I am Catholic and I am very curious as to when fundamentalists/evangelicals started referring to Jesus as the offended Creator, calling Him Jehovah, saying that Jesus alone is responsible for everything in scripture - The man who lived before he was born????

Thank you for your article. I have been questioning family members about their remarks and finally asked them if they had retired God and the Holy Spirit from active service. I don't find this amusing.

January 11, 2010

jovial_cynic said:
Lori -

The text does equate Jesus with God, and claims that Jesus is the creator, as much as it casts God as the creator. And that John's gospel introduces us to Christ by referring to him as "The Word of God" might point to Jesus as being responsible for everything in scripture as well. Jesus also calls himself the "I AM," which offended the Jews because it indicated that he was calling himself God.

January 11, 2010

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