newprotest.org: LESSIG 4OBAMA

LESSIG 4OBAMA

February 05, 2008
by: jovial_cynic


Lawrence Lessig, one of my favorite bloggers, outlines why he supports Obama over Clinton.

This is spot on.
np category: politics
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COMMENTS for LESSIG 4OBAMA


Kristen said:
Interesting stuff. Thanks, Josh!
February 05, 2008


jovial_cynic said:
No problem.

Hey - aren't we supposed to have you guys over soon? :)

February 05, 2008


Rebekah said:
THANKS JOSH! This is great! The character principle is one I touched on in my article and what I'm up against in government right now. Too many people yield their principles in the face of politics, fear of what others think, retaliation, etc.
February 06, 2008


Luke said:
I'm not sure why anyone is excited about any of the candidates really. McCain sucks, Hillary is hell on two feet, and Obama is even more left-wing than Hillary not to mention might as well be sucking on a pacifier. This may be the first election I don't vote in at all...
February 07, 2008


jovial_cynic said:
Well aren't you a negative nancy. :)
February 07, 2008


valdez said:
Hey Luke,

Glen Beck made the comment today in his radio program, referring to the dark outlook for most Reagan conservatives that "I'm a man without a President", I feel the same way. I have contrasting opinions compared to the Dem's about universal health care, "The Dream Act", Iraq, and others. In my opinion, there are no conservatives left that are running for this election with Romney now bowing out. That being said, I am encouraged by Obama, because he's the only candidate for either side that brings a fresh (although nieve and idealistic, but still encouraging) perspective to otherwise predictable and redundant politics. When I listen to Obama, I believe he is expressing himself in an honest and transparent manner. He's not part of the "establishment" and untainted thus far, a political "virgin" so to speak. He won't be able to follow through on his promise for Iraq, and he will learn that the hard way. Also, two years from his victory we will have a more balanced Congress-Republicans will make a comeback with a new agenda of "back to basics" Republican principles of limited government. I think they've learned their lesson about spending now.

February 07, 2008


Luke said:
Jovial:
Please don't tell me you've become one of the "Obama is the Messiah" people?

Valdez:
Maybe you're right. I don't think the Dems will win with Hillary she's too much of a negative with too much baggage. Obama's lack of any real experience also means he's got less of a negative record to be chided on. I still think though that he's just an orater. He speaks well but it's all smoke in mirrors and dreaming. There have been many great speakers over the last century that have caused millions to flock after them, but ultimately been terrible leaders. But hey, they could speak well so they must be good! Obama's big on dream speak, and short on real plans with any experience to effectively carry them out.

You wouldn't think of making me the governor of Washington just because I have a government job. Obama's no different. He's not qualified. He's never served in any armed forces. He's not spent even 4 years in the Senate (which historically makes poor presidents). So his leadership doesn't even approach any level which inspires any kind of confidence.

Hell, I should have run for president after all I'm a Trooper and have served our country in my position longer than Obama.


February 08, 2008


jovial_cynic said:
Luke - of course not. Please don't characterize me based on the articles that are posted on the Drudge Report.

You said: There have been many great speakers over the last century that have caused millions to flock after them, but ultimately been terrible leaders.

I think you're missing the fact that a "leader" is defined as being a person who can influence or inspire others. That you would say good speakers have "caused millions to flock after them" indicates that those good speakers have also been effective leaders. A leader is generally measured by the following they've established. In that aspect, Hitler was a terrible human being, but by definition, he was a very effective leader.

To the criticism that his campaign is "smoke and mirrors," you realize that Obama and Clinton are still fighting for the Democratic nomination, right? On key issues, Obama and Clinton aren't different enough to highlight key positions. If two people are wearing blue hats, one don't push his/her campaign to say that wearing blue hats is the right way to go. You're not going to see Obama pushing his policy proposals when doing so results in Clinton saying she's basically doing the same thing. That's not an effective strategy.

Right now, Obama's priority is to win the Democratic nomination, and in order to do that, he has to demonstrate electability (ie., the ability to lead others). He does that by being a good speaker, as you've stated. I assure you that when he clinches the nomination, you'll see him highlight the specific differences between his campaign and McCains.

February 09, 2008


Luke said:
I was kidding about the Messiah thing.

But I'll disagree that a GOOD leader is one one who merely speaks well. I see a big difference between being a leader and a good leader. I'm speaking to the quality of a leader not his ability to convince/delude a whole flock. Obama has (albeit extremely short) a record of the most fringe of left views including drug legalization, partial birth abortion, and socialized medicine.

So an effective speaker, yes. A good man, not close, especially not to lead the biggest superpower in the world. Maybe a mayor...

February 09, 2008


jovial_cynic said:
:)

I didn't just say "speaks well," though. I know people who can speak well who don't influence people. But Obama does influence people -- we've got people from both sides of the political aisle (thanks, Ed!) who are willing to follow him.

Just to make sure, let's not mix up "effective" with "good." Surely we agree that he's an effective leader, given that he's clearly gaining ground in terms of voters and individual contributions. By "good," it seems that you're suggesting alignment with your morals, but I don't think that a president's position on drug legalization and abortion should come into place in a debate. You're a conservative, right? Don't you agree that such issues should be handled at the state level, and not at the federal level? So what difference does it make what the president feels about those issues if you feel that the local government should handle those issues anyway?

In that regard, I'm a conservative, too. And I don't believe that Obama's feelings on those positions have a national impact, with the exception of health care, but I happen to agree with Obama on health care.

February 09, 2008


Luke said:
Okay we agree then on that part. However I do believe that a president has a national impact concerning his morals. This season especially because there are two supreme court justices that will be leaving very soon. They're lifers in their positions and if a poor choice is made (i.e. Ruth 'vader' Ginsburg) it directly influences the nation.

But other than that a pres basically just has veto power which can be substantial at times.

I assume that, knowing you, your agreement with socialized health care stems for your concern for the needy and poorer among us. I believe regarding things like abortion that we are to protect the most innocent among us and that their respective rights to life outweigh the need for healthcare. Since the presidents appointment of supreme court justices will directly influence that...

Also just to make this the longest post ;-) I would think that you would be opposed to leaving health care in the hands of the least efficient organization on earth (government). Similar attmepts in Canada and France leave people with wait periods that are outrageous and they end up going to another country to get the care they need...

February 09, 2008


jovial_cynic said:
Luke, you said, "I would think that you would be opposed to leaving health care in the hands of the least efficient organization on earth (government). "

That's why I don't want Clinton in office. :)

February 09, 2008


valdez said:
I really miss Reagan! WWRD? Although, Reagan was criticized in much the same manner during his initial campaign as McCain is now.
February 11, 2008


Luke said:
Well I've spent some time listening to the GoBama people. I've looked at Obama's time in office, etc... I'm still not seeing anything there.

Today A Texas Senator was on the Chris Matthews Show and Chris (whom I can't stand) asked, (or rather spit) "So you're for Obama right? Name even one thing he's accomplished in the legislature." The Senator left some akward pause and then said that he couldn't even being his cohort in the congress. He said something to the effect of "it's not about what he's done it's about what he makes us feel like he can do.

I understand the bit about Hope and Change. I get that. It's a good message and one that I could jump aboard is there was anything of more depth behind it. The problem is I can't really find any kind of plan behind Obama's speeches. You go to his website and it's even more vague. His speeches are eloquent and even inspiring but I that's all that is there.

So he's got no on-the-job experience, no accomplishments, and no plan. And THIS is the person you want to run the country??? I don't buy that this is the primaries so he's not obligated to expose any of his plans. If he wants the nomination he sure as hell better be exposing them to differentiate himself from Hillary and McCain who have provided those specifics.

Face it Obama doesn't have the depth you're hoping for. And he's the Antichrist ;-)

For fun I looked up the two keywords and this is the first thing I found:

Obama is the Anti-Christ. This is the evidence:

1.- He will come as a man of Peace (Obama promises peace in Iraq, defeat for the US)
2.- He will come mounted on a white Female horse(Obama mother is white who had 6 African husbands)
3.- He will come to deceive( Obama says he's a Christian but in fact he was born a Muslim, practices the Islamic religion, prays Friday’s facing Mecca)
4.- He will make himself the most powerful man on earth, if elected
5.- He will try to destroy the Jewish People and Israel( Obama has said he loves the Arabs specially the Palestinians, hates Israel and Jews. Admires Hitler, Osama etc)
6.- He will present himself as good and righteous but in fact he's Satan himself. Violence is in his heart
7.- Obama will help Al Qaida in its evil projects.
8.- Barack Hussein Obama is the “King of the South” predicted in the Bible.(Daniel .11, Kenya is south of Jerusalem)
9.- Obama comes to implant muslim Sharia Law upon America.

February 20, 2008


jovial_cynic said:
Clever.

As for this, I don't buy that this is the primaries so he's not obligated to expose any of his plans. If he wants the nomination he sure as hell better be exposing them to differentiate himself from Hillary and McCain who have provided those specifics.

It seems that his 10-in-a-row victory over Hillary has cleanly demonstrated the success of his tactics.

Anyhow, as far as "lack of substance" or whatever, I don't see McCain's site holding much more weight than Obama's. Head over to either candidate's economic section under "Issues" and they're both providing a similar amount of detail. They're both just providing bullet statements that outline their positions on key issues.

I think maybe you've jumped on the "no substance" bandwagon and have and odd expectation about what sort of man/woman should be president. You're looking at credentials, whereas I think that Obama is a more credible person. I think that Obama has been consistent in his positions, and that his positions are ones that most of America is willing to accept, which is why I think he will win. And I've had several Republican or right-leaning friends of mine say that while they don't agree with all of his policies, they agree that he's a more credible person.

February 20, 2008


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